On the blink

[richardc]

I knew I shouldn't have thought to myself that the car was driving like a dream...

Monday: a 140 mile round trip and my facelift Coupé didn't miss a beat.
Tuesday: a 2 mile round trip to a garden centre and now the left indicators will only stop when indicating right (with ignition on) or with the battery off.

Self cancelling still works fine, all 6 indicator bulbs work and doing a long battery reset or the Econ+Recirculate reboot changes nothing. Codes AA/00 appear in the temperature readout which I believe is "no errors".

Hazards work and the indicators flash at the right speed. I tried re-pairing the key I use in case the alarm was out of sync, not that the alarm has gone off.

Any ideas in case anyone else has had this and there's a magic reset instead of systematically replacing relays, fuses, wires, NITs...?

The other electrics work fine. Even the CD changer decided to come back to life recently.

 

[Oneball]

Sounds to me like it’s something mechanical within the stalk. I suggest removing the stalk and checking out the contacts/mechanism.

 

[nuvolablue]

Sorry to hear this. Not an immediate fix, but if you need to make a right turn you could make 3 left turns which is apparently the same as making one right turn.

 

[safrane]

Disconnect the battery for the night and see of a full discharge of the ECUs will make a difference... also, its been so wet recently I would check there is no water in the footwear fuses and the ones in the boot and engine bay.

Also, it would not harm your endeavours to charge the battery off the car in the interim... just in case.

 

[CatmanV2]

Sounds to me like it’s something mechanical within the stalk. I suggest removing the stalk and checking out the contacts/mechanism.

Or the relay

C

 

[Nibby]

Or the relay

C

My money is on relay.
2003 4200, the relay was green, positioned up under driver’s side .dash. When you locate it at first try pulling it out of the connector slightly and move it about to see if that starts working properly. Even if it does start working you need to change the relay but at least you know that is the problem.
There’s a Siemens BMW relay that is a cheaper alternative relay. The exact part number can be found on a search on this forum.

 

[Oneball]

Or the relay

C

Not sure about it being the relay as that’s not sided. It works the same for both left and right.

 

[CatmanV2]

Not sure about it being the relay as that’s not sided. It works the same for both left and right.

Oh, that's interesting. Wasn't aware of that

C

 

[Oneball]

Oh, that's interesting. Wasn't aware of that

C

And on some cars it works both indictors and hazards, some, usually older cars have a separate hazard relay.

 

[Nibby]

Not sure about it being the relay as that’s not sided. It works the same for both left and right.

Can’t remember for sure but I seem to remember on side indicated fine the other not and the hazards were acting up.

 

[Oneball]

Can’t remember for sure but I seem to remember on side indicated fine the other not and the hazards were acting up.

Could be then. I might be wrong. I’m pretty sure that it’s not a transistor type relay in a 4200, just a bimetallic strip and the circuit for left/right is “after” the flasher. Basically power comes to the switch via the unit, it is then switched to the left or right indicators by the stalk and returns to the battery via the earthed bulb. What causes the flashing is the current passes through a bimetallic strip in the flasher unit which heats up, deflecting and losing contact, then cooling and reshaping, gaining contact again.

 

[spkennyuk]

I knew I shouldn't have thought to myself that the car was driving like a dream...

Monday: a 140 mile round trip and my facelift Coupé didn't miss a beat.
Tuesday: a 2 mile round trip to a garden centre and now the left indicators will only stop when indicating right (with ignition on) or with the battery off.

Self cancelling still works fine, all 6 indicator bulbs work and doing a long battery reset or the Econ+Recirculate reboot changes nothing. Codes AA/00 appear in the temperature readout which I believe is "no errors".

Hazards work and the indicators flash at the right speed. I tried re-pairing the key I use in case the alarm was out of sync, not that the alarm has gone off.

Any ideas in case anyone else has had this and there's a magic reset instead of systematically replacing relays, fuses, wires, NITs...?

The other electrics work fine. Even the CD changer decided to come back to life recently.

If i understand correctly your self cancelling appears to be working but actually it isn't on the left side there is a nylon colar on the indicator stalks that has a sloped section on opposite sides to return the stalk to middle and to cancel the indicator. Sounds like your has not got quite enough pressure to turn the indicator off but is slipping past to centre the stalk.

If you want to test the theory you need to remove the airbag and steering wheel. Unplug the control stalks and then remove. Wrap some electrical tape around the steering columb where the white nylon colar sits. This has the effect of pushing the worn nylon colar out slightly. I would also clean up the contacts on the inficator stalk while you have it out. Put everything back and hopefully that should cure the issue.

I can take a picture of the stalks off the car as i have a spare set with a very similar issue.

Obviously follow the battery disconnect and discharge procedure before you remove your air bag.

 

[richardc]

If i understand correctly your self cancelling appears to be working but actually it isn't on the left side there is a nylon colar on the indicator stalks that has a sloped section on opposite sides to return the stalk to middle and to cancel the indicator. Sounds like your has not got quite enough pressure to turn the indicator off but is slipping past to centre the stalk.

If you want to test the theory you need to remove the airbag and steering wheel. Unplug the control stalks and then remove. Wrap some electrical tape around the steering columb where the white nylon colar sits. This has the effect of pushing the worn nylon colar out slightly. I would also clean up the contacts on the inficator stalk while you have it out. Put everything back and hopefully that should cure the issue.

I can take a picture of the stalks off the car as i have a spare set with a very similar issue.

Obviously follow the battery disconnect and discharge procedure before you remove your air bag.

When the stalk is in the turn right position, the right indicator alone flashes, so I believe (I could be wrong...) that it's not the switch position or collar that's a problem because if you leave it in that position and turn the ignition off, the left indicators flash

 

[Nibby]

Could be then. I might be wrong. I’m pretty sure that it’s not a transistor type relay in a 4200, just a bimetallic strip and the circuit for left/right is “after” the flasher. Basically power comes to the switch via the unit, it is then switched to the left or right indicators by the stalk and returns to the battery via the earthed bulb. What causes the flashing is the current passes through a bimetallic strip in the flasher unit which heats up, deflecting and losing contact, then cooling and reshaping, gaining contact again.

I thought it was strange at the time, but what I do remember was moving the relay slightly and everything started working fine only for it to let me down the next day. I ended getting the BMW relay it sorted it.

 

[spkennyuk]

When the stalk is in the turn right position, the right indicator alone flashes, so I believe (I could be wrong...) that it's not the switch position or collar that's a problem because if you leave it in that position and turn the ignition off, the left indicators flash

Ahh gotcha. Me not understanding that the left indicator flashes with the ignition off.

In my dim and distant memory i think i can recall somebody with a similar random indicator issue that turned out was a faulty hazzard light switch. Will see if i can find that thread. Relay under the dash is the most obvious first port of call.

 

[richardc]

Disconnect the battery for the night and see of a full discharge of the ECUs will make a difference... also, its been so wet recently I would check there is no water in the footwear fuses and the ones in the boot and engine bay.

Also, it would not harm your endeavours to charge the battery off the car in the interim... just in case.

I switched the battery back on briefly this afternoon after being off all night and the left indicators immediately started flashing... so turned it off again and I will dig deeper on a drier day. The right indicators were also glowing faintly in sync. It's definitely a case of bring something more analogue to Auto Italia on Saturday.

 

[spkennyuk]

I switched the battery back on briefly this afternoon after being off all night and the left indicators immediately started flashing... so turned it off again and I will dig deeper on a drier day. The right indicators were also glowing faintly in sync. It's definitely a case of bring something more analogue to Auto Italia on Saturday.

I think you may have an internal fault on the hazard light switch. Trying to find the old thread i read with a similar issue.

My logic is that the ignition needs to be on for the indicator circuit to be live.

The hazard switch on the otherhand is live as soon as you connect the battery and your hazard lights are flashing both sides of the car although faint on one side.

 

[Gazcw]

I had very similar issues with the Changed the hazard switch as advised by indie. No fix. Changed the relay and fixed.

 

[DLax69]

How do we award points for most creative thread title which also underscores the issue at hand...?

 

[richardc]

Quick update; my manual shows two 30A relays for devices "cut out"/"not cut out during ignition". They're the red ones. Removed them, put them back and swapped them over... No change. The left indicator still goes even when both relays are removed when the battery is turned back on. With the car running & electric circuits on, they are hot. Are there other relays not listed in the manual involved? The relays in the engine bay and above the battery are documented but seems dedicated to other stuff.